A simple mindful practice that can slow down emotional reaction, invite a breath, and encourage you to pause before you post.
Social media has made it easy to broadcast our thoughts and feelings far and wide in an instant. At the same time, we often don’t even consider the huge numbers of people who will read what we share. How many friends do you have across your socials? 300 to 400? 500 plus? How often do you really pause before you post?
When feelings are at a fever pitch, there’s a lot of rapid-fire, non-face-to-face communicating. For teenagers this can be especially tricky, given their proclivity for impulsivity.
“Adolescents are biologically more prone to making decisions that are not well thought out,” says Tristan Gorrindo, a child and adolescent psychiatrist at The Ross Center in Washington, D.C. “The part of the brain right behind the forehead, which controls judgment, is at that time undergoing a rapid period of development,” says Gorrindo, who is studying the way families use technology.
For teenagers and adults alike, it’s far too easy for a moment of heightened emotion to result in acrimonious conflict, bullying, or just saying something that lives forever and can be deeply regrettable.
Gorrindo has created a practice called W.A.I.T., designed with teenagers in mind (but perfect for anyone living in today’s digital world). Here are 4 questions to ask yourself before you post:
W = Wide Audience “Would I say this in front of a school assembly?” (If you’re a grown-up, imagine your entire office.)
A = Affect “Am I in a good emotional place right now?”
I = Intent “Might my intent be misunderstood?”
T = Today “Today, tomorrow, or the next day? Can this wait a day?”
Evaluating the urgency of what we’re about to say can provide a helpful injection of perspective. Why is it so urgent? What will happen if you take a breath and pause before you post? And if you wait, might you feel differently about it later?
This article also appeared in a slightly different form in the December 2013 issue of Mindful magazine.
If you’re burned out, discouraged, and disconnected by all the struggle and suffering in the world, you’re not alone. In times of intense upheaval, mindfulness practice can feel impossible. Try this simple, grounding meditation to pause, reconnect with compassion and clarity, and return to yourself.
Many of us are bearing witness daily to suffering all over the planet. We care about others, and we want desperately to be of use—and seeing the horrors in images and videos and stories every day can be deeply dysregulating to our nervous systems.
When we get overwhelmed by this vicarious trauma, we tend to shut down. We disconnect for ourselves and each other. We’re so spun out in our anxiety, anger, or overwhelm that it can feel impossible to engage in any kind of mindfulness or meditation practice.
This week, Shalini Bahl offers tender and practical guidance for how to pause, reconnect, and return to ourselves and our essential practice in times of intense internal and external upheaval.
A Meditation to Return to Ourselves When Practicing Feels Impossible
Read and practice the guided meditation script below, pausing after each paragraph. Or listen to the audio practice.
Welcome and thank you for being here, for caring enough to practice despite the gazillion things you could be doing with your time. The world needs people right now who can stay grounded while engaging with the suffering we’re all witnessing with open hearts and minds, people who can act from wisdom rather than overwhelm. People who haven’t lost themselves in the chaos. But we do lose ourselves, all of us.
When we bear witness to crisis after crisis after crisis, our nervous systems dysregulate. We lose contact with our wisdom, our intentions, our sense of what’s actually ours to do. This practice helps us return.
We’ll move through three pathways to return home to ourselves. First, inner calm, where you return to clarity and agency. Then compassion, where we are going to reconnect with our humanity and others. And finally curiosity, where you discover what’s actually yours to do, what’s possible for you to do. If you find one pathway calling to you more than others, feel free to linger there longer. Trust what you most need. So ready to begin?
Come to a posture that feels supported, lying down or seated. Feel the elongation along the back of your spine and neck. Roll your shoulders up, back and down. When you feel ready, lower or close your eyes.
From this place of presence let’s begin by taking three intentional breaths. Breathe in through the nose and exhale slowly through the mouth. If you like, you can make a sighing sound as you exhale.
Now return to your natural rhythm of the breath. Invite your mind to be here with your body, with your breath, resting in your awareness of the direct sensations of breathing in the region of your heart. Settle your attention in that one place in your body, in the region of your heart as you breathe in, perhaps noticing the space that’s created in your chest. And as you exhale the relaxation, letting go just for these few minutes letting go of any rushing, any expectations or judgments.
If you like, place one or both hands on your chest. Especially on days where our minds are busy, we feel fragmented. Placing one or both hands on the chest can really relieve the nervous system. Sense the warmth or coolness of your hands. The rising and falling of your chest under your hands, making contact with your body, sensing the beating heart.
Give your full care and attention to every inhale, to every exhale and resting in the pauses in between. Notice that space when your in-breath turns to an out-breath. And a slight pause before a new breath enters the body.
From time to time, your mind may wander away, and that’s natural. As soon as you notice that, with kindness invite your mind to return to this place of rest and awareness in the region of your heart. Connect with your direct experience of breathing, just the way you are. And notice if there’s any striving here, letting go of any effort to even meditate as the breath moves itself and your awareness. All you’re doing is returning to your awareness of this breath moving effortlessly in and out of your body.
Just for these few moments, allow yourself to rest. To replenish yourself, to feel resourced. And once your mind and body feel stabilized, listening within, ask yourself: What would support you in feeling rested, resourced? What would care for yourself look like in this moment? It might be as simple as turning towards yourself with kindness, appreciating the goodness of your heart and mind. Taking this time to listen within what you need more of, more rest, more movement, connection. Let yourself be held by your own loving kindness.
From this innate capacity for goodness, for compassion, gently note who you might have hardened against today. You don’t need to start with the hardest person, the one whose actions feel unforgivable. Start with someone easier. Maybe someone who said something online that rubbed you the wrong way. Maybe someone doesn’t understand or see you. Maybe a family member, a colleague, a stranger. Or maybe yourself. With kindness, simply notice the hardness. There’s no need to change it or fix it. Just feel the way it lives in your body, in your chest or belly, your throat. Breathe in to make space for it, to make space around it.
Recognize this hardness, its protection. You’ve seen unbearable things. You’ve been hurt. The hardness makes sense. And it’s also disconnection. Disconnection from our relational intelligence, from our capacity to see our shared humanity. And if it’s helpful gently invite this question: What if you had grown up in their circumstances? What if you’d received the same information, the same upbringing, the same experiences? Who would you be? Can you soften just a little when you consider this? That we’re all shaped by causes and conditions, often beyond our control. You may not agree with them or even condone what they’re doing. Can you consider saying this person has suffered just like me? This person also wants to be happy just like me?
Using your breath as an anchor to stay connected with yourself and with your good heart—can you feel that invisible thread connecting you? You’re both breathing the same air, drinking the same water. Living on this one planet we all call home.
Take a few moments to listen within. What shifts when we touch this shared humanity?
From this place of connection with yourself and our shared humanity, let’s explore what’s important to you, what’s possible, and what’s yours to do. So return to our open awareness. What’s most important to you in this moment? Take this time to reconnect with your deepest intentions and values. You might ask questions like: What am I not seeing? What might your body be trying to tell you that your mind is missing?
Without trying to find something special or seeking answers, just staying connected with your body. Trust your inner knowing as you consider the possibilities for actions you can take that are aligned with your intentions, with your unique gifts, with your values. What if there’s something you haven’t tried yet? Some approach you haven’t considered or some alliance you haven’t imagined? Open your mind and heart to new possibilities. Even if you don’t receive specific answers right now, just hold that question, being willing to love the unanswered question and being willing to live the question.
From this place of open curiosity, willing to see what you’ve been missing, ask what’s actually possible here. Not what you’ve always done, not what everyone is doing or telling you to do but what is yours to do and what would actually help If you need more clarity. Try journaling, being in nature and any other activity that supports you in returning to yourself to feel connected, alive, present with the gift of this life at this time on this planet Earth.
Even as we end this practice, remember that you can come back anytime. Every time you notice you’re lost in the scroll, in the rage and the numbness, you can return to your inner calm, your compassion, and your innate capacity for keeping an open and curious mind. This is where clarity, humanity, and creativity live.
Thank you for your practice. May our practice together benefit us and benefit all beings.
I’m delighted to offer you a series of meditations on building emotional resilience. Over the next four classes we’ll explore how to mindfully practice with four really common emotions: anger, anxiety, longing, and joy. I’ll offer some practices you can use both while you meditate and also in your life, when these emotions arise. Here, we’re looking at how to connect with your anger in a way that offers insight and choices, rather than just reactivity and overwhelm.
What’s An Emotion?
Let’s first explore what an emotion is. This is a rich topic that has even inspired some heated debate. If you find you’re interested beyond the scope of what we talk here, I encourage you to explore the work of two psychologists: Paul Ekman, and Lisa Feldman Barrett, who wrote a recent book calledHow Emotions Are Made: The Secret Life of the Brain. The work of these two author/scientists provides a good overview of the two differing viewpoints of the current discussion around human emotion. In the meantime, I’ll be sharing what I know with you here.
I don’t know about you, but I experience emotions as a combination of thoughts in my mind, plus physical or energetic sensations in my body, and the interaction between those two. When we’re meditating, we can see, via our moment-to-moment experience, that emotions are indeed made up of both mental content—such as visual and auditory thoughts—and physical sensations. And when we talk about physical sensations, let’s include all kinds: so, sensations we receive through our sense doors (seeing, hearing, tasting, smelling and touch), but also all of the physical sensations within our bodies.
I don’t know about you, but I experience emotions as a combination of thoughts in my mind, plus physical or energetic sensations in my body, and the interaction between those two.
There’s a great deal of nuance when it comes to our emotions and our understanding of them, but physical sensations in our bodies tend to get divided into two categories: physiological (ie: digestion, breathing, temperature, the feeling of our body and the weight of gravity); and what I refer to as emotional sensations or the felt sense in our body. A couple of examples: when we talk about having butterflies in our stomach when we’re nervous or excited; or the feeling of listening to a heart-warming story, which can actually produce a physical feeling of warmth in our chest. (Try to notice that the next time it happens).
Essentially, emotions are energy moving in our body. And that energy calls us to certain kinds of actions. Our emotions also help us connect with other people, and they provide us insight into our lives and a better understanding of what we value, what we want in the world.
Emotions In the Body vs. In the Mind
In my daily life, and in my meditation practice, I find it’s more helpful to attend to the physical sensations related to emotions rather than the thinking around those emotions. I say that because thoughts happen so quickly. It’s also so easy for us to get caught up and swept away in a story—to forget that thinking is happening and just be caught up inside of it. Physical sensations, on the other hand, are less subtle. That makes bringing our attention to them and holding them in our attention a lot easier. Physical sensations don’t move as quickly as thoughts, so we can notice them and notice how they shift and change. An added bonus: simply noticing the sensations in our body can provide us with a kind of grounding, an anchor. It’s a great starting point in both daily life and when we meditate, and we’ll explore that together here.
As we get to know our emotions, I really encourage developing an attitude of acceptance, respect and care for them—think of it as an honouring of our emotional world. Our emotions can offer so much rich information about our lives, about what we value, what we want; they also play a vital role in our relationships, providing the foundation of our connection in communication with others. In fact, some social scientists posit that the main role of emotions in our lives is really about social interaction and connection. It’s worth repeating: emotions deserve and are worthy of our attention, respect and care.
So together we’re going to practice skilfully connecting with and being curious about our emotions. And here’s our aim: not to act out with regards to the emotions we feel, but also not to suppress them. We’re going to practice just connecting with the emotion, holding it, being curious about it, with no expectation or drive to have to act it out, and not having to suppress or deny or ignore it either.
I really want to emphasize, too, that finding this middle way doesn’t mean we’re aiming to be indifferent or passive about our emotions. It just means that we’re going to take the time to actually be with the emotion long enough to figure out what the skillful response is—rather than get caught up in reacting to the surging energy of that emotion we’re feeling. Oftentimes we will still want to take action based on an emotion. In fact, that’s what they’re telling us: something has arisen that we need to act on. But what we’ll do in this practice is try to nudge ourselves into territory where we can act out of connection and care rather than a buzzing desire to get rid of the feeling we’re feeling—because that’s not acting, it’s reacting.
How to Connect With Your Anger Mindfully
In this first class together we’ll explore anger. We’ll think about a recent situation where we may have been angry, or for the lucky ones joining this meditation, maybe you’re feeling a little anger right now? (Talk about excellent timing!)
Before we get started, let’s talk a little bit about anger. Like every emotion, anger is totally natural and actually an extremely life-affirming emotion. Anger’s fundamental role is to protect us and protect what we care about in the world. It lets us know when a limit of ours, or a boundary, has been crossed. It lets us know when our needs are not being met or when someone we care about is in danger. So anger both lets us know something about what’s happening around us, and it energizes us to act. It rouses us to the necessary energy level to be able to respond to a threat. It’s essentially about protecting life.
At the same time, we know that when anger is misdirected or when we act on it compulsively, it can be a truly destructive force—for our own physical health, our relationships, and in some instances, in the wider world. So we want to learn how to respect, honour, care for and be with our anger—and gain some insight into the most skilful response in any given situation, rather than go with the reactive response that could cause more harm.
The first step, then, is to recognize and respect anger. This is what’s happening, and it’s part of the human experience. And we respect it by understanding that our anger is trying to take care of us in some way, even if it’s maladaptive for the situation. We’re aiming to learn how to be with the anger, see what’s really there, and then see how we want to respond. So let’s try this together.
Meditating on the Power of Anger
Watch the video:
Listen to the practice:
Read and practice the guided meditation script below, pausing after each paragraph. Or listen to the audio practice.
When you’re ready, come into a comfortable seated position. If it feels comfortable to close your eyes, please do so. Let’s take a few deeper breaths. Just allow yourself to feel the points of contact with the cushion or chair beneath you; feel your feet on the ground. Feel a sense of grounding here. Take a few longer inhales and exhales just to settle.
Now let’s bring to mind a recent situation when we felt angry. As with any practice around difficult emotions, for anger, let’s think about the angriest we’ve ever been as a level 10. What we’re seeking for the purposes of this exercise, then, is a situation that’s a three, or maybe a four. Consider something you experienced at the level of irritation or annoyance; don’t choose the last time you felt, say, enraged. When was the last time you felt irritated, annoyed or frustrated, perhaps about something someone did or said? Just bring to mind that situation.
Draw an image of this past situation into your mind. Recall the words that were spoken. Remember your own thought process related to the experience. At this point, you may be feeling some sensations in your body. Let’s go deeper. Can you recall the story you told (or tell) yourself around this experience? For example: What this person did or shouldn’t have done? How you were wronged? How it should have been different. Whatever it is, let that story run its course for you right now. Let it run until you begin to feel a sense of irritation or annoyance in your body.
Once you feel the irritation, we’re going to cut off the thoughts we’re having. Just cut off the storyline. This is vitally important with almost every difficult emotion. Step one: firmly direct your attention away from the story you’re telling. Next: bring your attention to your body. Really feel what’s going on inside your body. Where do you feel the anger in your body? Maybe in your chest? Your hands? Just notice that.
Now, what else is happening in your body? Find something that feels neutral, spacious or maybe even pleasant in your body. Maybe you feel this in your feet, or your contact with the chair. Maybe you’re focused on your hands touching. We’re simply creating some space around the anger. Notice the tip of your nose; notice your breath. If you can’t find any sensations in your body that feel safe or free from anger, take a moment to listen to the sounds around you. You can even broaden your awareness to include the whole room; and even further to include sounds that are far away. Rest your attention with these sensations for a few minutes. Allow yourself to find some ease and a bit of calm.
If you find your mind wanders back to the story, the thoughts about what’s making you angry, gently but firmly redirect your attention to the neutral sounds and neutral sensations you’ve identified. Just take a few breaths here.
Once we feel a little calmer, we can explore the anger more directly again. Let’s come back to where we feel anger in our body. Explore that: Do you feel tightness in your throat? Are there any sensations in your shoulders? How about your arms? Do you detect any sensations in your belly? If you find a place, really explore the sensation: Is there a temperature to this felt sense of anger, is it hot or cold? Is it throbbing? What are the edges like? Is it shifting and changing? As you stay with the felt sense of irritation, frustration, anger, and the directly felt sensations of hot, cold, vibrating, sharp—hold all of this with a lot of care and curiosity.
Now let’s notice what other emotions might be present. Is there anything else inside or beneath the anger? Can you detect any other emotions there? Fear? Sadness? Wanting? Just notice. Is there anything the anger might be masking? Be curious. Allow this to be very somatic. We’re not thinking about it, we’re not trying to understand it cognitively, we’re just letting the emotion reveal itself in a very direct, body-based way.
Notice if any other information arises from this anger. You could even drop in a question, such as: What does this anger need? What does it want me to know? Again, we’re just dropping the question into the felt sense in our bodies, and then seeing what arises. Are there flashes, images, words that could help you understand what’s needed? Do you get a sense of what action you may need to take? Let’s take another few moments of holding and being with the felt sensation of the irritation. Be curious about what your anger wants you to know, perhaps about what is needed.
As we bring this practice to a close, see if you have any insights into what you could do skilfully to respond to this irritation or anger. What would truly take care of this anger or frustration? Exploring our emotion in this way, we’re better prepared to respond in a rooted and grounded way; we’re better equipped to address what’s needed. As we finish, then, we can make a commitment to take whatever skillful action is needed. It might be something personal, such as some kind of self-care: maybe a walk, a nap, a meal. Or we might commit to having a direct and difficult conversation with someone, perhaps to ask for what you need or to set a limit. Just see if you can commit to taking one skillful action to address this situation.
When you’re ready, open your eyes if they’ve been closed and take a deep breath. Look around the room and orient yourself to your space, wherever you are.
Try to practice these skills in your daily life. If at any point you encounter in yourself feelings of anger or frustration, first: notice how you’re feeling: “Oh, anger,” or “I’m irritated.” Next, find some ground: feel your feet on the ground, feel the back of your body. And then notice what is not feeling angry in that moment, too. Get some space around the anger, and really open your awareness wide to the sounds and the space around you.
I can’t recommend this enough. And it can take as little as five seconds simply to connect with your feet on the ground and broaden your awareness. Then, when you feel some space and calmness around the anger, you can direct your attention back to the difficult emotion and ask that question: What is needed? What is needed right now? And then proceed from that place.
Zindel Segal explores the 3-Minute Breathing Space practice to develop your ability to ground yourself, return your attention to the present, and fully find yourself at any moment. Read More
In the chronically-online world of 2025, it’s almost impossible to avoid the saturating presence of podcasters, pundits, and social-media influencers in the “manosphere”—people who promise men admiration, health, and success, but who often have ideas of masculinity that leave men feeling even more wounded and isolated. Jon Macaskill and Will Schneider from Men Talking Mindfulness are devoting themselves to reaching men where they are, in their struggle, confusion, and longing for a life of meaning and connection. In this wide-ranging conversation with former Mindful editor Amber Tucker, Macaskill and Schneider offer a perspective on what mindfulness for men can provide in a world that needs authentic men more than ever. And they share a vision of what it is to be a man that’s less about the performance of manliness and more about being genuinely resilient, wise, and connected.
Two Paths to Discovering Mindfulness
Amber: I would love to start by asking about each of your paths to mindfulness. Jon, I know that you’re a retired US Navy SEAL Commander, and Will came from being a yoga teacher and a coach—two paths that a lot of people wouldn’t see as meshing naturally together. How did you personally discover mindfulness, and what did it take to integrate mindfulness into your lives?
Jon: My path to mindfulness, and I think Will and I have this in common, is that it kind of came out of necessity. I had struggled with some anxiety, with survivor’s guilt, depression, and then over and above that, as a SEAL, you’re trained to push through pain—I would love to say ignore stress, but I think sometimes we even bring stress onto ourselves and then just keep going.
But eventually, you know, that approach broke me. I wasn’t able to handle it anymore, physically, mentally, and emotionally. When I got to a point where all that was at a height—where I was struggling with the post-traumatic stress and sleepless nights—I had mindfulness introduced to me by a counselor. I first laughed at him because I thought that, being a special operator, I didn’t need mindfulness and meditation. He kind of flipped the script on me and he said, “Well, what if I had a pill that I could give to you that would change your performance?” As special operators, we’re always looking for something that’s going to improve our performance. And as you could guess, that pill wasn’t a pill at all. It was mindfulness and meditation.
So, because it was sold to me as a “performance enhancement,” then I tried it. And long story short, I tried for several months, and it did help me to handle the stress and anxiety better. I got that performance improvement that he had promised me, but I also was able to manage stress. At first I didn’t trust it, but it gave me a real shot at not just slowing down, but also being present. What I had perceived as a kind of weakness, practicing mindfulness and meditation, wasn’t that at all. It was a strength, and it gave me these tools to face what I’d been avoiding. It gave me the tools to regulate my emotions better. I wouldn’t say that I’m an expert on regulating my emotions, but I’m better. And then to reconnect: reconnect with my family, reconnect with friends. I think most importantly, the ability to truly connect with my authentic self.
To integrate that into my life, it took some discipline to do consistently. It’s easy to do mindfulness or to be mindful and practice meditation once or twice and then maybe a couple of days in a row and then drop off. But by staying consistent, making it a daily practice, it’s changed how I lead, how I father, and ultimately how I live.
Will: I really found meditation first, even before yoga, back around 2006. I was at a point in my life where I just moved to New York City, and I was pursuing life as an actor here in the city: auditioning, training, doing a lot of theater, I started doing television. I just wanted to be more present, and I also needed to manage the anxiety that comes with performance. I started with Transcendental Meditation (TM) and it started to help. Honestly, it was challenging to sit and meditate twice a day for 20 minutes with the TM on my own, not having a group that I’m meditating with, or not having the online opportunities like we do nowadays. It was very frustrating in the beginning. I’m having all these different experiences, my mind just keeps wandering, and I don’t feel like I’m doing anything. Then about a year and a half later, after the sputtering starts with trying to work with meditation, then I really became more consistent. It helped when I found yoga around the same time, especially yoga asana practice. There was this whole mindful movement inside of me, trying to take care of my mind. At the same time, I was taking care of my body. It felt like, This is my practice. It’s been an incredible benefit to me. It still is, every day that I practice. Now I’ve been with the [Men Talking Mindfulness] show, and the work that I do with coaching, and I incorporate all of these skills into what I’m teaching here now.
Starting the Men Talking Mindfulness Podcast
Amber: Let’s talk about Men Talking Mindfulness, the podcast that you co-host. It’s described as tackling difficult subjects like loneliness, trauma, addiction, the unhealthy elements of masculinity. Could you talk a little bit about some of the most transformative conversations that you’ve had? How have your guests or listeners highlighted the power of mindfulness and addressing those kinds of challenges?
Will: We’ve really “attacked” mindfulness from so many different angles! And with Jon and I both being practitioners, we have a lot of great authors that come on the show. The whole show has impacted my life, because I’m a student first—the expert, if you will, of mindfulness who’s always learning. For me, some of the ones that really stick out were No More Mr. Nice Guy with Dr. Robert Glover. Reading his book and seeing what the whole “nice guy” thing is, and then deconstructing why this whole nice-guy approach to life is not the way to fully embrace all the power of your masculinity, was really profound for me.
And then we had Jon Eldredge on the show, New York Times bestseller. I loved his book, Wild at Heart. That conversation with him included understanding the three core principles that live in the soul of masculinity: always having a sense of adventure, having that relationship in your life, and having a battle to fight, having your mission. I just came back from a two-week trip to Peru, which is quite an adventure. I’m still working on the relationship part, but I definitely have the other two pretty synced up. I keep all the books that I’ve read for the show! One after the other of our guests have just been so helpful. A lot of them come back to the core principles of mindfulness, being present, allowing that presence to light up your biology, and the good biology that we have that really makes us, like, these wonderful human beings that we can be if we let go of the stress and anxiety.
Jon: One conversation that’s jumping to mind right now is our conversation with the two Eds, Dr. Ed Adams and Ed Frauenheim. They co-wrote Reinventing Masculinity, where they challenged the idea that men have to fit into this rigid mold that you’re either tough or you’re not a man. That stood out to me, and it struck a chord with our audience because we heard from men who said things like, “I thought I was broken because I didn’t fit the stereotype,” or “Now I realize there’s strength in being authentic and being who I am.”
We also had Jocko Willink on, fellow retired Navy SEAL. There were a couple of powerful moments in that talk about balancing intensity and presence. There’s a lot of people who think you can’t be intense and present simultaneously, and how mindfulness can actually make you a stronger leader. We’ve had Dr. Mark Gordon on. And Mark shared about all these different kinds of groundbreaking insights on the brain-body connection. He’s a neuroendocrinologist. We’ve had Dr. Rob Kelly come on three times. And he’s talked about purpose and recovering from addiction. We’ve had multi-time Olympic champion, Apolo Ono, come on to reflect about how mindfulness shaped his Olympic career and then his transition afterward. We just had Dan Millman on to explain The Way of the Peaceful Warrior, his book.
We’ve even had Congressman Tim Ryan on to talk about bringing mindfulness into politics. We’ve had Steven Kotler on to share how flow science connects directly to performance and presence, and how that is all underpinned by mindfulness. So sorry, a lot of name drop in there, but like Will said, this show has changed the lives of many of our audience, but it’s also changed our lives. We have learned so much about mindfulness, how it’s tied into leadership, how it’s tied into wealth, how it is tied into health, how it is tied into just about everything that we do and it’s changed us for the better. It’s my spiel.
Will: Yeah, we’re like the little guinea pigs for the show. We just try stuff on, talk about it. So it’s been quite fun to be the students and the teachers in what we’ve created.
Where to Start If You’re Curious About Mindfulness
Amber: That’s incredible. Thank you so much for both sharing some of the breadth of different voices and backgrounds and areas of expertise that you have on the podcast. Definitely many familiar names there for the Mindful reading audience, and also a lot of new names. So I think that’s pretty exciting. You were just touching on… what listeners have shared with you about how the podcast has helped them to discover mindfulness—maybe support for the first time, start to build a daily practice, strengthen relationships, even help to save marriages and a lot of other results that I’m sure you’ve heard from people. I wonder: Why do you think the practice of mindfulness is resonating so strongly with so many men, particularly in this moment in time?
Jon: I’ll go on that one first, Will, if you’re cool with that. What I find interesting is that mindfulness, if you really go back in history, it resonated with men. We had the monks who brought it into the world in multiple different ways, but we also had warriors, these warriors that men today read about.
We read about the Spartans, we read about samurai, and in some way they practiced meditation before they went on the battlefield so that they could be present, so that they could be calm. Rather than bumping chests and smelling these smelling salts before they went out, they calmed themselves down.
I think men are realizing that this playbook of suck it up or man up, it doesn’t work anymore. And men are realizing that we can show vulnerability and authenticity because suck it up or man up leads to broken marriages. It leads to mental health problems or challenges, and it leaves a lot of men suffering in silence.
I think mindfulness resonates because it doesn’t ask you to give up toughness. A lot of people think that if you practice mindfulness, that you’re giving up toughness, and you don’t. I think it truly helps you to redefine what toughness looks like. It takes real strength to be present, to feel your emotions and to regulate those emotions. I don’t want to “control them,” but regulate them. And then it also takes real strength and courage to face your challenges without numbing out, without alcohol, without drugs. If you continually numb these challenges, then you’re not going to come out of them. And that’s why I think guys like the names that I mentioned before, like Jaco, Olympians like Apollo, these big-time thought leaders like Steven Kotler, and then congressmen like Tim Ryan—I think that’s what they’re finding value in this right now.
Will: I think the world is just experiencing a level of chaos that it’s not used to, because what I’m seeing, I’m sure we’re all feeling it, is because of the infiltration of technology in our lives, like everywhere, with social media, with the rate of messaging that you get through, whether it’s text or email or Instagram or whatever platform you’re on, it’s just like message, message, and message. There seems to be a greater demand for our attention in so many different places.
Mindfulness is this natural balance that’s coming into society, because everything has its opposite. If chaos is happening, then what’s the equalizer? I feel for human beings, a lot of it is mindfulness. How do we become not so easily triggered? How do we manage our feelings? And mindfulness is helping us to do that.
I think also for men in particular, the way that we’ve worked traditionally since the industrial revolution has changed dramatically, as well. It requires a whole other set of skills that we didn’t need to activate if we were just doing a regular nine-to-five in the factory. Also the roles in the family have changed. The family dynamics have changed. We have two working parents very often, and what does that require? That requires a lot more communication. How are we communicating? Mindfulness for men is helping men to understand themselves on a more deep emotional level. So they’re not a slave to their emotions, not so easily frustrated or anxious or stressed out, and really being more effective in whatever environment they’re in, whether it’s the family, whether it is work, whether it was with their kids, whether it is some sort of community event. So mindfulness is helping the world in so many ways, but men for sure, because these are skills that were not taught in school. I mean, some of them are now, but nobody over 20 years old or 25 has really been taught these skills in school, and people are looking for this place to learn these tools. That’s one thing that we’re doing, and it’s one thing that all the mindfulness teachers out there are doing—helping people to integrate these tools in their lives so they can deal with this new society that we’re in.
Amber: I really appreciate both of you speaking to that, especially with the predominance of tools like mindfulness and meditation seeming to be marketed toward women in this day and age. It’s good to have a reminder that that hasn’t always been the case. And actually mindfulness is a tool that’s for everybody, regardless of how we’ve been trained, our gender, or anything like that. It can benefit all of us.
Jon: I just want to jump in just with one thing. I’m glad you said that piece. Because the guests that we mentioned are all men. I think every single one of them that we’ve mentioned were all men and even more specifically, white men. We also have had a lot of women and folks of color on. Theresa Larson is a good friend of ours. We’ve had her on to talk about being a mindful mother, which doesn’t sound like something that would go on a men’s show, but we need men to understand what a mother is going through. We’ve had Ali and Atman Smith and Andrés González from the Holistic Life Foundation. We’ve had Uma Naidu to come on and talk about mindful eating. She’s a nutritionist. So I do want to make sure that we capture that the show is a men’s show, but we have a lot of women listeners, and we have a lot of women guests, as well.
Amber: Yeah, thank you for that. You’ve had Amishi Jha as well, I think, right?
Will: Oh, yeah. They spoke so clearly, and it’s awesome to have such a decorated general, like really being a huge advocate for mindfulness, because it affects anything you do, regardless of what you’re trying to do with it, it has an incredible impact. And I’m glad more and more people are waking up to this.
Many Different Ways to Approach Mindfulness for Men
Amber: Yeah, bringing it into these contexts like the military where people both really need it for performance, and also just for mental health and all the other good things that mindfulness can help with. You’ve had a wide range of very influential guests, best-selling authors, Olympians, huge business leaders, politicians, many other people. And how do you think that these diverse voices are contributing to your mission of changing the narrative around masculinity and mental health for men? Some of the people that you talked with on your show may not be mindfulness teachers as such, but they’re still promoting knowledge and perspectives that could fit under the umbrella of mindfulness. Is that an accurate way of characterizing them?
Will: Yeah, I think the way we’ve approached the show is that there are so many different angles you can approach mindfulness. We bring on experts to help us solve a particular problem, or give us some insight into something, or to bring awareness to something that can be beneficial in our lives.
From the masculinity point of view, we’re taught by our fathers, our coaches, our uncles, our brothers, just to be tough. But the 21st century is demanding greater skills, and really that big skill is being more emotionally intelligent. So we’re trying to open that conversation and show how incredibly powerful it is when you become more aware of that whole, your mind, your emotions and your actions, how you can really start to change things. It just takes a little bit of practice. The goal for us is just for men to have happier, healthier, more peaceful lives because of what they’re learning from our show.
Jon: Yeah, and I’ll add to that in…we’ve got this swath of different guests coming to talk about different approaches. I think men often look at these guys, or maybe they look at me and Will and other men that they look up to, and they say, This guy has it all together. What’s wrong with me? And then they hear these high achievers admit that they struggle, too. It normalizes the conversation, shows that mindfulness is for everyone. No matter your background, no matter your definition of success, we’re all human beings and we all have struggles. And no matter what your struggle is, mindfulness is not necessarily going to relieve that struggle, but it’s going to help in managing it.
Will: I mean, one of the principles of compassion is common humanity. We create a space for common humanity so people can connect to other human beings that have been struggling, as well. One thing I’ve seen with all the great leaders we’ve had on the show is that in order to access that greatness, vulnerability and authenticity are essential. You have to take a true inventory of yourself in order to access and unleash that next level of greatness.
What’s Ahead?
Amber: If we look ahead, what do you hope that the long-term impact of Men Talking Mindfulness will be?
Jon: My hope that we help to shift the culture so people see vulnerability, presence, and compassion as strengths, not weaknesses. Let’s say in 10 years, more people are teaching their kids mindfulness. More leaders are leading with that emotional intelligence. Maybe companies are hiring more people based on their emotional intelligence and not just their resume. And then fewer people are suffering in silence. Then I feel that we’ve done our job. Every person who listens and changes, even in a small way, impacts their family, their workplace, their community. Over time, those ripples add up to maybe changing a society, maybe changing the nation, changing the world.
Will: I don’t have much more to say than what Jon has said. It’s exciting to see the impact we’re already having. If we’re able to have this kind of ubiquitous impact with the men that are plugging in now, it’s exciting to see where it can go. It’s just a matter of amplifying this platform and sharing our platform for other people to plug in. We’re just still holding space for people to travel through, get what they need and go out there and be more mindful and live more compassionately and be better leaders and be responsible for how they’re showing up in the world. I see my relationships in my immediate family and my immediate friends changing. I think we have something to do with that, it’s nice to see that impact.
Amber: Well, I think if you’re actually starting to change minds and lives within your circles and your family, that’s almost as big as changing the world, really. In my view, that’s deep change. Those are people who wouldn’t fake changing in front of you.
Will: Yeah, that’s true.
Amber: I think it’s really powerful and really valuable how much you’ve grown what you’re doing and all the people that you’re reaching. So thank you for all the work that you do. I’d love to finish off on a note of helping maybe a few more people, a few more men to discover mindfulness. When you’re talking with other men who might be new to mindfulness, might wanna give it a try, is there a number one practice that you have, like a type of practice or an exercise that you recommend just to give them a first taste of what that feels like and help them get started?
Will: Yeah, we’ve been leading this meditation course through Men Talking Mindfulness for the last year and a half. We’re actually gonna launch a new course coming soon. What we’ve seen from all the stuff that we studied from men is the first thing that you can really do to help or have a significant impact on your life is finding your breath and slowing down your breath and getting to know your breath. I cannot believe the incredible impact in just a few weeks of getting to know your breath and working with your breath a little bit through different breathing practices. The light bulbs start going off, because when you get calm and you begin to use your breath as a tool to get calm, you start to see: Oh my God, that’s anxiety. Why do I have so many expectations? Oh my God, I’m a perfectionist. The whole world starts to change.
We talk about the biological impacts all the time about mindfulness, but getting to calm drops us into who we are, our biology, the moment, and then we can start to find a new path forward. And it’s simple and it’s free, and you can do it all the time in as little as 30 seconds or a minute, or you can do it for an hour.
Jon: I would add on with the breath—absolutely fully believe that’s a great place to start—but I will say, with his yoga classes, and men will come in there and they want to be perfect on day one. And I think a lot of men do the same thing with meditation. I did the same. You have to start simple. One of the biggest mistakes men make is thinking that they need to meditate for an hour a day on day one, or have some perfect setup, right? But taking just five slow conscious breaths, like Will said, whenever you feel stressed out or overwhelmed, that can help you to get to calm. That alone can shift your nervous system from that fight-or-flight into that calm and clarity. Then from there, you can explore longer, more in-depth meditations. And we’ve shared some of those on our show. We have some on our YouTube channel. But start small and then stay consistent. It’s very much like the gym. If you go into the gym, and you crush a two-hour workout and then you don’t work out again for two weeks, that two-hours workout was for naught. If you sit down and meditate and you meditate for an hour and then don’t meditate again for weeks, that meditation was for naught. You stay dedicated and you do 10 minutes, even five minutes a day. You stay consistent with it. You’re gonna get more from that. So I say start small, start simple, and then stay consistent.
Will: We talk about change and transformation, and the C word comes up every single time. Every guest says: Be consistent. Pick one thing. And repeat that thing for weeks. Get the confidence and the courage. It’s been a lot of fun to be able to do that and be able do it effectively and see lives transform.
The MTM Origin Story + Final Thoughts
Amber: Is there anything else that you wanted to say or just briefly talk about that I didn’t mention before we close things up here?
Will: I think to help anybody that’s like reading this article and wants to start somewhere or has been mindfulness-curious for a while, or maybe they’ve tried and dabbled and struggled. I want to say: Get around other people that are doing it or join a group. That group energy around mindfulness is very powerful and very encouraging and you’re more likely to show up. Again, that common humanity is very helpful for people because you don’t feel so alone. You don’t feel stupid or unaccomplished or unsuccessful. You’re like, Oh, well, you’re struggling with that, too. Okay, this is just how it is sometimes. So I think that’s one thing I think people should know as they go on this adventure.
Jon: I’ll throw in there just kind of the origin story of the show. We have a mutual friend, a military member who introduced us to one another. He heard that I was into the mindfulness space, and he had just done a retreat with Will. What was it done in Peru, Will? I don’t know.
Will: No, I was in Bermuda, his name is Scott Tucker. We got to give a little shout out to Scott Tucker but yeah, we’re in Bremuda, but go ahead, Jon.
Jon: Okay, so Scott had just finished this retreat in Bermuda, comes back, he’s like, Hey, you’ve got to meet this guy Will, introduces us. I’m going through my military transition, so I’m getting introduced to a whole lot of people in different industries. Scott introduces me to Will, and I have a phone call with him and at the end of the conversation, Will says, Okay, well, when are we going to talk next? And every time we spoke, Will would say, Hey, when are we going to talk next? So we were having these phone calls once a month about mindfulness and meditation, talking about our revelations, our challenges, new practices that we’ve found, whatever, and then COVID hit. I was watching Will on Instagram, and because Will is a yoga instructor, a lot of his work had to go virtual. So I reached out to Will, I was like, Hey, man, what if we started a meditation and mindfulness Instagram Live where we basically just have those same phone calls that we were having, but we have them on Instagram Live? So we tried it, and we had like, six people tune in for the first few shows. Then we figured out how to rip the Instagram Live audio off and create the podcast. We thought maybe we’d get more listeners as a podcast. So if your readers go back and listen to some of our first shows, you will hear that the audio is way worse. Now we record with professional mics and headphones and somewhat of a studio. Our rooms are set up like studios, but it started really rough. It started as an idea that spawned from COVID essentially and has been going on for five years since then. It’s gone through multiple iterations of different audio software and producers and different video software. But we’ve come a long way, and in and of itself, the show is a mindfulness practice. We pay attention to changes. So that’s a quick down and dirty dump of our origin story, if you will, if you want it to include the story at all.
Amber: Thank you for filling in that gap, Jon. I think there were thousands of podcasts born during the pandemic, and you’re one of the ones that has survived, and I’m sure that all of the mindfulness that goes into it is a big factor in that.
Will: Yeah, and I think it’s also one thing that’s really helped us keep the torch lit is us working together. I don’t know if this would be tough to do alone, because it’s a long haul to get where we are. Jon and I inspire each other, keep each other in the arena. Now we are five years later having a broader impact. We have a team that’s helping us to grow, as well. So it’s just awesome to see where it is today.
Jon: According to Feed Spot, which is a ranking of types of podcasts in the category of mindfulness for 2025, we were ranked number three in the world by iHeartRadio. We were listed as one of the top 10 mindfulness podcasts in the country. And then globally, we are in the top 1.5% of podcasts worldwide. So pretty proud of that. We’ve come a long way, and we haven’t arrived. We’re gonna continue to press.
Will: Yeah, thank you so much, for real. It’s a big help to get this out there.
Amber: Thank you both. It’s been so wonderful to collaborate, wherever we can over the last couple of years. I’ve really enjoyed it and appreciated it when we get to do things together. I can’t wait to see what’s next for each of you and for Men Talking Mindfulness.
Children learn largely by example. Susan Kaiser Greenland explains how the “about to” moment can foster awareness and compassion.
Have you ever noticed a funny feeling in your body the split-second before doing something you later regret? Maybe the funny feeling is a tightening in your chest, or a flush of heat rushing to your face, or a sinking feeling in the pit of your stomach. These funny feelings can take place in what Western meditation teacher Joseph Goldstein calls the “about to” moment. This moment is the split-second before you speak or act.
We can train ourselves to identify when the “about to” moment is occurring in our lives, and notice the internal signals that accompany it. By paying attention to the physical sensations that sometimes accompany an “about to” moment, we have an opportunity to pause before acting and reflect on what we’re about to do or say. This is a chance to ask ourselves critical questions, like:
“Why choose to act in this way?”
“How does it make me feel?”
“Will what I’m about to do or say lead me and my family closer to, or further away from, genuine happiness?”
Parenting in the “About To” Moment
The “about to” moment has special relevance to parenting because it is also the place and time where we choose (whether consciously or not) what we teach our children by example. It is a chance to shift direction if we recognize that our automatic reaction to a stressful situation is not consistent with our image of the parent we hope to be, or the adults we hope our children will become. Character development is a life-long process, happening through repeated actions both large and small. One place it happens is during the countless “about to” moments in our lives.
In 2018, several prestigious universities published a study about the effect of spanking on three-year-old children. They reported that three-year-olds who had been spanked by their mothers more than twice in the month prior to the time they were assessed by researchers had an increased risk for higher levels of child aggression at age five than children who had not been spanked.
Even though this finding is consistent with a well-established body of academic literature on the topic, and the American Academy of Pediatrics recommends that parents refrain from spanking entirely, the reporting of this study has been somewhat controversial. In the comment section of several blogs about the research, some people have taken offense. Perhaps because many parents continue to spank their kids, even those as young as three. According to the American Academy of Pediatrics, more than 90 per cent of families report having used spanking as a form of discipline.
The “about to” moment, when a parent chooses to spank a child, is an opportunity for the parent to ask what he or she is trying to accomplish. Spanking is, at the very least, a stressful life experience for both parent and child, and it is well known that stressful life events can have a profound impact on brain development, especially in young children.
In their book Born for Love: Why Empathy is Essential, Dr. Bruce Perry and Maia Szalavitz explain that when early childhood experiences are nurturing and empathetic, a child’s nervous system will wire up one way. If early childhood experiences are stressful, harsh and frightening, the same child’s brain wires up in a different way. “About to” moments can make learning and later relationships easier or more challenging. I doubt that any parent, upon reflection, hopes that his or her actions will make it more difficult for kids to learn and get along with others at school or home.
Self-Reflection, Compassion, and Modeling
The “about to” moment is also an opportunity to reflect on the quality that one is reinforcing within oneself and modeling for one’s kids. For example, is striking out in response to behavior that we disagree with/disapprove of a quality that we want to strengthen in ourselves? Is it one we want to model for our child? Will teaching children that it’s OK to hit other people help them become their best selves? Help them have an easier time on the playground? Lead them toward genuine happiness?
The choices that we make in our “about to” moments determine who we are and who we will become. They also let our kids know loud and clear what’s important to us. Making the choice to exercise restraint, empathy, compassion and even-handedness time and time again is how these qualities become habitual in both parent and child. For example, when our kids see us being kind to others, we’re both practicing kindness ourselves and modeling it for them. When they watch us exercise patience while waiting our turn in the grocery line or when stuck in traffic, we’re both modeling patience to our kids and practicing it ourselves. When we find nonviolent ways to address inappropriate behavior we’re both modeling nonviolence and practicing it ourselves.
To borrow from Ralph Waldo Emerson, “Character is higher than intellect.” It is the choices we make in the “about to” moments—choices we make over and over again all day every day—that determine our character and set an example for our children to follow.
When I was a kid, my dad taught me how to do a backflip off the diving board. I was terrified, but with his encouragement, I pulled it off. Then he had me do it again—and again—until it stuck. Feeling confident, I decided to push myself and bounce higher. Bad move. I jumped high, but not far enough out, and ended up hitting my head on the diving board on the way down. Then I sank. Underwater, I saw my dad’s hand reach in to grab me. Once I was out, I burst into tears. That’s when I heard it for the first time: “Suck it up.”
He told me to get back on the board and do it again. I was furious, scared, and confused, but his tough approach worked (ish). Though I didn’t want to, I climbed back up. I reluctantly mustered every ounce of courage and completed another backflip. Then I got out of the pool, fuming at my dad for making me do it again after I was hurt, and ran inside the house. I was pissed and I didn’t forgive him for years. Looking back, I get it now (ish). He totally could have handled it better, sure, but it was all he knew—it was his normal.
Here’s the other thing I realized: There’s a time and place for pushing emotions aside to get through the chaos. In that moment, “sucking it up” was necessary for me to calm down, refocus, and get back on the proverbial horse. But here’s the catch: When that approach becomes your everyday norm—especially when your job is all chaos, all the time—it starts to bleed into every situation and every aspect of life, chaos or not.
There’s a time and place for pushing emotions aside to get through the chaos—but when that approach becomes your everyday norm, it starts to bleed into every situation and every aspect of life, chaos or not.
Calm Isn’t (Always) the Goal
For the first responders I meet while leading Tactical Brain Training sessions, that’s the challenge. The nature of the work demands you set emotions aside to handle emergencies effectively.
A detective once said to me, “So when someone is coming at me with a gun or knife, you want me to close my eyes, take a few breaths, and be peaceful and calm?” I replied, “Sure, if your intention is to get stabbed or shot!” (I may have cursed a bit here too.) I followed up with something like, “No, that would be the wrong move here. Instead, you can use mindfulness to complement your law enforcement training strategically …protecting yourself. And no, don’t close your eyes!”
When the job requires you to literally place yourself in the fire, the stress that comes with it is understandable. And the trauma—whether experienced personally or from witnessing someone else’s—is inevitable. If we know that trauma is part of the job, it becomes our responsibility to address it. We train for every other aspect of the job—drawing a weapon, performing CPR, restraining someone—so why not train to manage the potential fallout? This is the gap I see between training for action and training for sustainability (that is, training to keep ourselves mentally healthy).
Mindfulness interventions and Tactical Brain Training are not just about creating calm; they’re about regulating the nervous system, enabling someone to approach their job or their partner with purposeful actions rather than just reacting. Instead of letting emotions guide actions, mindfulness interventions train the brain’s prefrontal cortex to help guide actions. The prefrontal cortex is in charge of executive functioning: cognitive abilities such as working memory, flexible thinking, and self-control. Training this part of the brain means we’re able to operate in a responsive state rather than a reactive one.
For first responders, veterans, and other people who face high-stress situations, having a variety of emotional regulation techniques increases access to balance. It’s about building a go-to toolbox of strategies. If one doesn’t work, toss it and try another. This isn’t about zoning out or ignoring the pain and suffering; it’s about training to tune into it while knowing you have a strategy to work your way out.
How to “Suck It Up” With Mindfulness
Mindfulness is not as simple as “just notice your emotions” or “just take a breath.” Asking someone who’s been trained to suppress their emotions in order to save a drowning person to suddenly feel and embrace every emotion can be overwhelming, distracting, and even frustrating. And asking someone who is highly agitated to stop what they’re doing and take a breath can be ridiculously annoying! If you ever see me write or hear me say “JFB,” this is my way of creating some levity in a stressful moment, which can have the benefit of incorporating an intervention without the associated stigma or frustration. JFB stands for Just F’ing Breathe (but I’m sure you already figured that out).
It’s key to start small. You train your brain just as you would train your body—gradually, with manageable steps. It would be pretty dumb to start weight training by lifting 100 lbs. We need to build slowly and steadily (I’m currently at 10-lb weights—apparently I need to work on this.)
You train your brain just as you would train your body—gradually, with manageable steps.
For example, instead of starting with “I am so frustrated, where do I feel it in my body?” which can feel overwhelming, you can approach the mind-body connection interventions in a stepwise progression. Begin with something like: “First I want to train to feel sensations in my body, and then I will try to connect those sensations with an emotion.” It’s helpful to begin with noticing common physical sensations. Train for curiosity: “Where do I feel hunger?” “Where does fatigue show up in my body?”
From Chaos to Emotional Regulation
From there, you can build. Think a happy thought. What does happiness feel like in your body? And, think of something frustrating (but NOT traumatic, as there’s no need to purposefully trigger yourself here). And be curious again. Try and identify where you feel frustration. This step-by-step approach builds a foundation of awareness. By the time emotions are addressed directly, it’s no longer foreign or overwhelming. Skills have been developed to notice without being consumed.
This is exactly why I call it Tactical Brain Training. It shifts the idea of mindfulness away from the stigma of being “emotional” and reframes it as a strategic way of thinking. The idea is not to disappear emotions in order to get the job done. It’s about creating a “suck it up container,” knowing you can return to those emotions once the chaos settles. Emotional awareness isn’t just about handling stress—it’s a tactical skill for navigating both the chaos of the job and the calm of daily life.
Emotional awareness isn’t just about handling stress—it’s a tactical skill for navigating both the chaos of the job and the calm of daily life.
Just like learning to backflip off a diving board, it requires practice, patience, and a step-by-step approach. And when mistakes happen—as they inevitably do—the training allows emotions to be acknowledged without letting them take control. Instead, they’re momentarily set aside, enabling clear focus to complete the task at hand.
So many people I work with are surprised to learn that it can be this simple. I’m not saying traumatic experiences are simple, and I’m not saying starting a mindfulness practice is easy. What I am saying is this:
Yes, stress and trauma are inevitable parts of the job.
No, you are not broken.
Yes, it is what it is—and now you know.
Yes, you can approach this in a way that feels relatable to you.
